S3E8 The Great Jersey Devil Debate Bats, Billionaires, and Bigfoot!

[00:00:00] Dwayne: If you were hiking and saw Bigfoot, which of your friends and family would believe you?

[00:00:04] Koji: Nobody would believe me. They would think I'm crazy.

[00:00:06] Cat: Everybody would believe me.

[00:00:07] Koji: They would. Why would they believe you?

[00:00:08] Cat: Because I don't make up tall tales like that. Like I've just never been one to. To make stuff up.

[00:00:14] Koji: Oh, interesting.

[00:00:14] Cat: So they would take me seriously.

[00:00:15] Dwayne: I think everyone would believe me. Well, I think my brothers and sisters would believe me. My mom would believe me. I'm not sure if my nieces and nephews would believe me.

[00:00:23] Cat: Okay. I yeah, I yeah, my step, my stepsisters, more extended family. They wouldn't believe me. But anybody in my inner circle, they know I don't make stuff up.

[00:00:31] Jennifer: Definitely my son would believe me. That's like the one I know for sure. For sure. And then. Definitely not my parents, though.

[00:00:39] Koji: My son wouldn't believe me.

[00:00:40] Dwayne: Interesting.

[00:00:40] Koji: No.

[00:00:41] Dwayne: When I used to get in trouble at school, um, my mom and my grandma, they. They were always on my side.

[00:00:47] Koji: I mean, to other people, I'd be on their side, on my son's side, but I don't think, like, just if we were talking and I said I saw Bigfoot, he wouldn't be like, yeah, whatever, dude.

[00:00:56] Cat: I for sure wouldn't believe you.

[00:00:58] Dwayne: Like this. They would believe that I believed it at the very least.

[00:01:05] Jennifer: That's good.

[00:01:09] Dwayne: Welcome to the unofficial Official Story podcast. This is episode number eight of season number five. Join us as we dive into the quirky, mysterious, and bizarre. From unsolved mysteries to peculiar pop phenomena, we uncover hidden stories and explore alternate realities. My name is Dwayne. It's interesting. Dwayne Ranger Rangers and Koji has a shirt on that says Rangers and I'm. My name is Dwayne Perkins, but for this show it's Dwyane Rangers because, um, I've always been more of a Rangers fan than a Devils fan or an Islanders fan.

[00:01:42] Koji: Oh, interesting.

[00:01:42] Dwayne: Talking hockey. And I'm not really a big hockey fan.

[00:01:45] Koji: And I'm Koji Foot because we're gonna be talking about Bigfoot. No, actually, we're not talking about Bigfoot, but we just talked about Bigfoot in the beginning, so. Koji foot, there you go.

[00:01:51] Cat: And I'm cat Chupacabra because we're talking about cryptids anyway, so let's go for it.

[00:01:58] Koji: Got a theory or a mystery you want us to explore? Send it our way and we might feature it in an upcoming episode.

[00:02:03] Cat: It's November and we're celebrating with you and your family. World Animal Enrichment Day on November 12th.

[00:02:10] Koji: What are you guys doing on World Animal Enrichment Day?

[00:02:13] Dwayne: Tell you what I'm not gonna do. I'm not gonna kick a cat. I'm just playing.

[00:02:19] Koji: That's weird.

[00:02:20] Cat: What?

[00:02:21] Dwayne: Animal enrichment day. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do that.

[00:02:24] Koji: on that day. Only though.

[00:02:25] Dwayne: I wouldn't do it any day. Okay, but you know what's crazy is that that's right before another important day on November 13th. I was just talking to someone about this. Uh, I'm gonna date myself. But on November 13th, Felix Unger was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from his wife. It's from the Odd Couple. The show.

[00:02:46] Jennifer: Who? Felix unger.

[00:02:47] Cat: Yeah, I was about to say. Who's that?

[00:02:50] Dwayne: Uh, the odd couple, Felix Unger and Oscar Madison.

[00:02:53] Koji: Wow.

[00:02:53] Jennifer: Is that a television show?

[00:02:54] Dwayne: A movie and a television show and a. And a play. Right?

[00:02:58] Koji: Yeah. There was a play.

[00:02:59] Cat: Oh, yeah, I vaguely remember it.

[00:03:01] Dwayne: One was clean, one was dirty. That was the gist of it. Yes. Okay.

[00:03:06] Cat: For World Animal Enrichment Day, um, I'm gonna cook. I'm gonna enrich some animals with spices.

[00:03:12] Koji: Oh, Jesus.

[00:03:14] Dwayne: I thought you were gonna say salad. Um, to kind of.

[00:03:16] Cat: No. I'm gonna. I'm gonna marinade some animals.

[00:03:19] Koji: Jesus.

[00:03:21] Cat: They're gonna be real enriched with flavor.

[00:03:23] Dwayne: You bring up. You make a good point, though, because some animals we adore and other ones, you know, other animals we eat, and then we make fun of other people. We eat the animals that we like, but then other people are like, I can't believe you eat those animals.

[00:03:36] Koji: Cows or something.

[00:03:36] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:03:37] Cat: So isn't that crazy?

[00:03:38] Dwayne: All over the place.

[00:03:38] Cat: So to be fair to even it out, I'm. So I'm gonna marinate some animals, and then I'm gonna read to my dog to enrich him. Is that.

[00:03:47] Jennifer: I'm down with that.

[00:03:48] Cat: Enrich my dog.

[00:03:48] Dwayne: I'm ok with that.

[00:03:49] Koji: I always tell my dog I'm gonna eat her, so I don't know. What does that say? Maybe I should eat her on the.

[00:03:53] Cat: I don't know if I believe you.

[00:03:56] Dwayne: Uh, if you didn't know. World Animal Enrichment Day was founded in 2016. Johnny, come lately? Um, by animal behaviorist Sarah Jane White to raise awareness about the importance of providing mental and physical stimulation for animals under human care, from pets to zoo residents.

[00:04:15] Cat: That's definitely not what I thought it was before I read that part. That's why this month we're taking a look at one of our favorite families of animals cryptids, specifically the Jersey devil.

[00:04:28] Dwayne: Dun dun dun. Excuse me. However, before we get to that, let's introduce our guest. And our guest is a very, very special guest because she was our former co-host. Uh, Jennifer Field is an actress in California, native, born and raised in the San Francisco Bay area. A former Miss Asian America and current soccer mom of a tween, uh, she has had recurring roles on General Hospital as the notorious Assistant District attorney Jennifer Arden. And as the maniacal Doctor Ruby on the Primetime Emmy and Peabody Award-winning series Artificial. She just wrapped filming an episode for an NBC procedural crime drama and has a steamy thriller making the rounds on the film circuit. Is that the one you were talking about?

[00:05:10] Jennifer: No, but yeah, there's a couple there's a couple things in motion. But yeah, there's definitely that one.

[00:05:15] Dwayne: Awesome. That's Jennifer, and she loves anything sci fi, the outdoors and spending time with friends and family. That. That last sentence felt like I'm like, everything was super like about career. In that last sentence. It felt like your dating profile.

[00:05:32] Jennifer: And bios are weird. I need to have someone edit it for me because I'm like, what do I say to sound humble? But also like, talk about. 

[00:05:40] Koji: ChatGPT.

[00:05:41] Jennifer: Yeah.

[00:05:42] Koji: Gemini.

[00:05:42] Jennifer: It's true.

[00:05:43] Koji: Yeah,

[00:05:43] Jennifer: I could run it through ChatGPT.

[00:05:45] Koji: They do a good job of bios.

[00:05:46] Jennifer: Yeah, I haven't thought about that. I'm just. I don't really use it. I'll just tell my son to do it for me. Like, can you come up with the prompt? And then he'll just.

[00:05:55] Cat: Honestly, it's this easy. You could just take what you already have and put it in ChatGPT and say, can you make this better?

[00:06:00] Jennifer: Right, right.

[00:06:01] Koji: Hundred percent. Yeah.

[00:06:01] Cat: That's all.

[00:06:02] Jennifer: Okay.

[00:06:02] Koji: So how does it feel to be a San Francisco Giants fan?

[00:06:05] Jennifer: I don't want to wear my hat right now.

[00:06:07] Koji: Yeah, well, I mean, it's okay. I mean, it's okay. It's like, you know, everyone has to support losers once in a while.

[00:06:11] Jennifer: So, I mean, I'm hardcore, like, I'm not a bandwagoner. And like, I give an example a lot of times of the Warriors. Right. So back in the 90s they were like the worst team in the in um NBA. Right. And then they became, you know, revolutionary with the Steph Curry phenomenon and stuff. So I remember friends of mine being hardcore Warriors fans. And people would be kind of like, you know, because they're considered a a crappy team and look at them now. So that's how I feel about my Giants. I'm down with them through thick and thin, and we've had our heyday and it'll it'll be back.

[00:06:47] Cat: Look, when some people support losers, it's sports. When I support losers, it's boyfriends. So you know what?

[00:06:53] Jennifer: Actually, maybe you and I have something in common.

[00:06:57] Dwayne: Wait, didn't hasn't, like, three billionaires asked you out or something like that?

[00:07:01] Jennifer: Yeah.

[00:07:01] Koji: Oh, yeah. That's right.

[00:07:02] Dwayne: That's crazy.

[00:07:03] Jennifer: Yeah. Or I went on dates with three. Did I say three? Let me think. One, two. Who is the third one? Did I say three?

[00:07:10] Dwayne: Or you could bring down the oligarchs single handedly if you just would. You know what I mean?

[00:07:14] Jennifer: I mean, I don't know why I couldn't just, like, find a way to fall in love with them.

[00:07:18] Koji: Well, you don't even have to fall in love.

[00:07:19] Cat: Because they're always kind of weird. I say, as though I've met some. No. Well, my my best friend has gone out on some dates with some very wealthy men, and there's always something that's a strange quirk. One of them would only eat raw meat.

[00:07:33] Jennifer: What?

[00:07:33] Dwayne: That's crazy. Like he's a vampire. He didn't go out in the daytime or what?

[00:07:39] Koji: What does he do on.

[00:07:40] Cat: It was an evening date.

[00:07:40] Koji: What does he do on November 12th? On World Enrichment Day.

[00:07:43] Cat: That's a great question. We're gonna have to find. Him and stalk him. Um, but, yeah. No, they went on a date and he asked for raw burger meat, and he ate the raw burger meat, and then afterwards. But he was really nice and funny.

[00:07:56] Dwayne: You can't even finish that date. You have to leave.

[00:07:58] Cat: So she. She tried to give him a chance, but at the end he goes in and gives her a kiss. And she said it just tasted like raw burger meat. And she couldn't go on a second date. Even though he was a billionaire.

[00:08:07] Koji: I could fall in love with him, a billionaire.

[00:08:09] Jennifer: Oh, teach me your ways.

[00:08:11] Koji: I would just open up my legs and get pregnant.

[00:08:14] Dwayne: You can't.

[00:08:16] Cat: That's different from falling in love. I think it's a very. Do you know what love is. Koji? 

[00:08:24] Koji: And I would say no to the prenuptial agreement. Come on. 

[00:08:28] Dwayne: Well, you know, uh, speaking of the World Series, by the way, even though, like, I don't hate it when the Dodgers win. You know, they used to be the Brooklyn Dodgers a long, long time ago. I was torn because I was going for Toronto because I just. America is in a state where I wanted Canada to win. But Ohtani what he did was so great that I'm like, well, it would be a waste if they don't win because it's like the best performance ever. Maybe.

[00:08:50] Koji: Yeah. So how's everything going with you? What are you. What are you working on?

[00:08:54] Jennifer: Yeah. What is going on with me? Well, um, kind of, like, very different from my bio. I don't even think I told you. I actually just finished a year in, like, a jobby job. Like a real job. And I hadn't had one of those since I graduated college. So that was kind of,

[00:09:10] Koji: What are you doing?

[00:09:10] Jennifer: I was actually basically a research assistant for usc political science department.

[00:09:16] Cat: Oh that's fun.

[00:09:17] Jennifer: So I worked on this study for like a little over a year where I analyzed and transcribed and like, annotated, um, body cam footage, videos from LAPD traffic stops.

[00:09:31] Koji: Oh, cool.

[00:09:31] Jennifer: So I actually talked about our podcast when we talked about kind of like, hey, when everyone's doing like an icebreaker, when we all first kind of got in, I was like, yeah, well, you know, I've transcribed even though I maybe only did it a couple times. But I explained my experience with using Otter AI and stuff like that, right? So that was kind of cool because I actually talked about this podcast. But yeah, I did that and it was, yeah, you know, a lot to kind of bring in a day job with everything else I have going on, like the, the soccer mom stuff, acting stuff.

[00:10:00] Koji: does your child play a travel or club soccer?

[00:10:03] Jennifer: No, we're not quite.

[00:10:05] Koji: That crazy yet.

[00:10:05] Jennifer: Yeah, only I think part of it is actually because of me. Because it's just more work for me, right? More like, um, overnights and more commute.

[00:10:13] Koji: Travel. Yeah,

[00:10:14] Jennifer: Yeah, traveling. So I think it's actually really because I can barely handle the soccer schedule as is.

[00:10:20] Dwayne: Right, right. And he's a fan of soccer. He watches.

[00:10:23] Jennifer: Yes. So we.

[00:10:24] Koji: That sounds un-American, by the way. I'm just going to point that out.

[00:10:26] Jennifer: I know,

[00:10:26] Dwayne: But soccer is very American. But then they they switch like every kid plays soccer, but then they switch to another sport. But go ahead. Yes.

[00:10:34] Jennifer: Yeah. But I mean we have Heung-Min SUn over here at LAFC right now. So I'm super excited to see him play. I didn't get to see him since he came a few months ago to the team. But.

[00:10:44] Dwayne: He used to be with the Tottenham Spurs.

[00:10:46] Jennifer: Hot spurs. Yeah yeah.

[00:10:48] Koji: Wow.

[00:10:48] Jennifer: And I knew about him years ago right. And then so we're gonna go see him next year.

[00:10:52] Dwayne: I watch Premier League. Yeah. 

[00:10:53] Jennifer: Yeah.

[00:10:53] Koji: Wow I remember I went to um LAFC game with uh with my son and we went with these two guys who play like or the this kid and this dad. They play club soccer.

[00:11:03] Jennifer: Oh okay.

[00:11:04] Koji: And they were watching it and they're like ooh, ah. They're like saying all these things. And me and my son were like, they're just passing it to each other. And then we're like. And then so we're like, let's go get food. My son. And I said.

[00:11:16] Dwayne: That's hilarious.

[00:11:16] Koji: So we got up and like left and then like, but they didn't want to go because they were like watching the game.

[00:11:20] Dwayne: See some people find baseball just as boring.

[00:11:22] Koji: No, I understand.

[00:11:22] Dwayne: Baseball builds to these great moments, but you have to be patient.

[00:11:26] Koji: Yeah

[00:11:26] Dwayne: Yeah. If you watch a game like I watched a game in France before and, um, yeah, they like, ooh, ah, they actually clap for good pass.

[00:11:33] Koji: Yeah.

[00:11:34] Dwayne: Or a good steal.

[00:11:34] Koji: Or they have like a, they like plays or something. Right.

[00:11:37] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:11:38] Koji: Well what position does your son play?

[00:11:39] Jennifer: Um. He's defense, and I forget what the name of it was that bad? I forget what the name of the position is.

[00:11:46] Koji: Defender.

[00:11:46] Jennifer: Something on defense, maybe. Yeah. He they switch him around a little bit. He really just does it because it's like the team sport he gravitated towards. And so I want him to do a little something. But he is still doing Brazilian jiu jitsu.

[00:11:59] Koji: Oh nice.

[00:12:00] Jennifer: Yes. Yeah. And I tried to get him to play baseball, as you may know, but he just he just wasn't into it. So that's okay I guess. We still go to games.

[00:12:08] Dwayne: It's hard to stand there as someone hurls object at you as fast, as hard as they can. I mean, some people can do it. I could never.

[00:12:15] Koji: It's time to get to the bottom of this once and for all.

[00:12:17] Cat: Yeah.

[00:12:18] Dwayne: This is the current official story. The new Jersey devil is said to roam the Pine Barrens, which is the largest remaining example of the Atlantic coastal pine Barrens ecosystem.

[00:12:29] Cat: Legend says the Jersey devil was mother leads unwanted 13th child born during a storm in the 1730s, the baby transformed into a winged beast with a goat's head and clawed hands. He killed the midwife and vanished up the chimney into the Pine Barrens, where it said to prey on children near Leeds Point. I just gotta know, though, whose mother leeds?

[00:12:56] Koji: It's a it's a woman who had 13 children.

[00:12:58] Dwayne: Right? Right.

[00:13:01] Koji: In new Jersey. In new Jersey.

[00:13:02] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:13:03] Cat: So he. His mom was a lady in new Jersey, and then he turned into Satan. That's all we know.

[00:13:09] Koji: Some say Mother Leeds was Deborah, wife of Japhet. That's racist. Jap. It says Jap. I'm serious. This is Jap. Jap it.

[00:13:20] Dwayne: I think it's Japhet.

[00:13:21] Cat: Japhet like Jaffar,

[00:13:23] Dwayne: Like phone.

[00:13:23] Koji: Well, why are they making me read this Jap. Right? That's racism. Right?

[00:13:28] Cat: If you Google it like she's just. It's so interesting. Gemini. It's just like Mother Leeds was a central figure in the legend of the Jersey devil. There's no like. Oh yeah.

[00:13:38] Koji: Debra. It's Debra Lee is Debra Leeds.

[00:13:40] Cat: Debra Leeds.

[00:13:41] Koji: Who had 12 kids and lived in Leeds Point. Fun fact Benjamin Franklin may have coined the name Jersey Devil.

[00:13:47] Dwayne: And Franklin's publishing rival Daniel Leeds, a loyalist with nine kids and three wives. After Franklin's satirical witch trial story in the Pennsylvania Gazette, the legend exploded.

[00:13:59] Koji: Wait, wait, wait.

[00:14:00] Cat: The sentence is really weird.

[00:14:01] Koji: Yeah. How can how can Daniel have nine kids and three wives? Oh. Oh, God.

[00:14:05] Dwayne: I think it's a different.

[00:14:06] Cat: Three for from each.

[00:14:07] Dwayne: Different person with the name.

[00:14:08] Koji: But then Deborah had 12.

[00:14:10] Cat: I don't think you should use this intern again.

[00:14:13] Koji: Well, that doesn't make any sense. Okay, anyways.

[00:14:16] Cat: Let's get the story right before we get the story right once and for all. Okay, so Benjamin Franklin coined the term and we're saying that his rival.

[00:14:25] Koji: Was Daniel Leeds.

[00:14:26] Cat: Yeah.

[00:14:26] Koji: Who owned a publishing house that was rival to Benjamin Franklin. And he had a wife named Deborah who had 12 kids, and then the 13th was the new Jersey devil.

[00:14:37] Cat: It's the last sentence of that one. After Franklin's witch trial story in the Pennsylvania Gazette, the legend exploded.

[00:14:44] Koji: So basically, he's the one that is allegedly the one that created the idea of the Jersey devil.

[00:14:49] Cat: Okay, so they're saying that Benjamin Franklin wrote a satirical witch trial story in the Pennsylvania Gazette, which caused this whole thing to explode.

[00:15:00] Koji: Allegedly.

[00:15:01] Cat: Yeah.

[00:15:01] Dwayne: You know how, like, the Bible was just a novel. And then we kind of. And I'm just playing. I'm joking. But, yeah, somehow Ben Franklin, um, maybe added fuel to the fire. Is that what we're saying?

[00:15:14] Koji: Maybe. Yeah.

[00:15:14] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:15:15] Cat: Another tale links the devil to a cursed love story during the Revolutionary War. A girl fell in love with a British soldier and gave birth to the Leeds devil.

[00:15:25] Dwayne: It seems. Seems like it was like a challenge. It was almost like a, uh. You not have, like, writing challenges. And it was like everyone wanted to come up with a new origin story. Because it's like 16 origin stories here. Or and maybe it was a gypsy's curse. In one version, a woman refused, uh, food to a beggar and later gave birth to a devil child who fled into the woods.

[00:15:47] Cat: That's giving beauty and the beast. Isn't that what happens? Like he refuses to give the beggar woman food and she turns him into the beast.

[00:15:53] Dwayne: But also people who panhandle on the street. They should get in front of this one.

[00:15:57] Jennifer: They need to learn some magic, right? The devil said to haunt wetlands screaming through the trees. Some believe it's a protector of the land. Even Napoleon's brother, Joseph Bonaparte, claimed to see it while hunting.

[00:16:13] Dwayne: Uh, naval hero Stephen Decatur allegedly fired a cannonball at a winged creature near Hanover Mill, but it flew off unharmed.

[00:16:23] Cat: Hmm. I think he just shot a bird and missed, I don't know, uh, and here's another wild one. Captain Kidd, the pirate, supposedly beheaded a crew man to guard his treasure. Some say that the ghost and the Jersey devil became friends. Seen strolling the marshes together. Now this is just fanfiction.

[00:16:43] Koji: Well, and it's crew person.

[00:16:44] Dwayne: That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:16:45] Koji: Crew person now.

[00:16:46] Jennifer: Ah, yes. Thank you.

[00:16:50] Koji: Farmers blame dead livestock on the Jersey devil. One even claimed it tried to steal his chickens. Eyes glowing red. The then came crop failures, droughts and silent, silent barns. What does that mean?

[00:17:00] Cat: Like all the animals in the barn died.

[00:17:02] Koji: Oh, okay. Got it.

[00:17:02] Dwayne: Animals were really quiet.

[00:17:04] Koji: Okay.

[00:17:04] Dwayne: Sorry.

[00:17:05] Koji: Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I didn't know. Panic spread, massive footprints appeared in the snow. Schools closed, factories shut down. All from fear of meeting the devil in the pines.

[00:17:14] Dwayne: Sightings of the Jersey devil stretch back to the 1800s. From Bridgeton to Haddonfield, even up to the New York border. But you don't mess around. Don't come. Don't bring that shit to New York. Jersey devil. Um. Back then, stories spread by word of mouth.

[00:17:27] Koji: That changed in January 1909, when newspapers and police reports documented over 30 sightings, with the creature crossing into Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Delaware. One account even claimed it attacked a trolley car. Police fired, but it vanished. Descriptions varied, but most agreed it looked like a twisted mix of man and gargoyle.

[00:17:42] Cat: Frenzy pulled in scientists. Some thought it was a prehistoric holdout from the Jurassic era.

[00:17:48] Koji: Theories flew. Maybe a pterodactyl. Is that how you say it?

[00:17:51] Dwayne: Yes.

[00:17:52] Koji: Okay. Sorry, a marsupial carnivore. Even a cloven footed fissiped. Is that Jesus Christ?

[00:17:57] Dwayne: That one? I'm not sure.

[00:18:01] Koji: Okay. I can't pronounce anything.

[00:18:02] Jennifer: Yeah. Mr. professor.

[00:18:03] Koji: I just learned. I just learned American recently, so, you know, uh, but no one found proof. Just questions.

[00:18:10] Dwayne: By the 60s, the legend was so strong that Camden merchants offered $10,000 and a private zoo for its capture. The Philadelphia Zoo matched the reward. One museum even painted a kangaroo green and strapped on wings to fake their own jersey.

[00:18:26] Koji: That's kind of like the in China where they did the they put the dog as a the chow chow dog as a panda.

[00:18:31] Jennifer: Oh that's. Right, I saw something that sounds similar to that.

[00:18:34] Cat: So funny.

[00:18:36] Koji: Today, the Jersey Devils, a pop culture icon featured in the 1973 film The Legend of Boggy Hollow and reimagined in comics as J.D., a truth seeking environmental protector.

[00:18:46] Cat: Okay.

[00:18:48] Jennifer: Has anyone seen this this movie?

[00:18:50] Koji: No,

[00:18:50] Cat: No.

[00:18:51] Koji: I didn't even know it existed.

[00:18:53] Cat: But what if it was all a warning, a myth to keep kids out of the pines? Some say the devil was really a sandhill crane. Four feet tall, 15 pounds, and aggressive when cornered and known to circle in a fight.

[00:19:08] Koji: Some say the Jersey devil shows up every seven years down south. He's feared, but up north he's seen as a more gentle, even protective. In fact, some Vietnam vets view him as an anti-war symbol.

[00:19:18] Cat: Well, time to put on our hunting caps. Is the Jersey devil haunting South Jersey? When we return, we'll banish all the other theories and capture what really may be happened.

[00:19:30] Dwayne: Now that we've reviewed the evidence, let's give our theories. And I kind of want to go first. What I've realized is things that are haunted. All these kind of things, even houses and all this stuff. You know what never gets haunted? Like super corporate things. Like you never heard about a Walmart or.

[00:19:47] Koji: I don't think I've ever heard of a penis being.

[00:19:50] Dwayne: Um, maybe I don't know.

[00:19:53] Koji: Wilt chamberlain.

[00:19:54] Dwayne: Right, right right, right. No, but but corporations, I don't know if it's the lighting. Like it? Maybe fluorescent light makes the spirit leave, but, like, corporate things, even if something was haunted, as soon as a corporation comes, the ghost leaves. Right. So that leads me to this. I think maybe in the 1700s, 1800s, they were probably wild animals. There was something afoot.

[00:20:17] Koji: A sandhill crane, maybe.

[00:20:18] Dwayne: Yeah. That gave sort of, um, birth and air to the legend. But that's long died out. So now it's keeping keeping it going is there's some corporate entity that really wants that land.

[00:20:30] Cat: Oh, so they're like having somebody haunt it. I feel like this is the plot to a movie.

[00:20:34] Dwayne: No, no, you know what it is.

[00:20:35] Cat: It's like a Scooby Doo movie. I got you. Oh, no.

[00:20:41] Dwayne: Sorry, I was gonna.

[00:20:43] Cat: I ruined your punchline. I'm so sorry.

[00:20:46] Dwayne: Yeah. No, it's good. You're right, you're right. Absolutely right. So basically, yes, this is exactly a Scooby Doo episode. Uh, someone's bringing down the value because it always comes down to wanting to build condos, right? It's like it's always condos and hotels. So if we could bring in the Scooby Doo cast and if they would catch the Jersey devil and rip off his mask, we would realize that it's some like, real estate developer.

[00:21:13] Cat: Mhm. I wonder what real estate developer.

[00:21:15] Dwayne: And he would have got. Away with it. 

[00:21:16] Cat: Super shady and would do something like that.

[00:21:19] Dwayne: So, so.

[00:21:21] Koji: I wouldn't call. I wouldn't call Trump a real estate developer.

[00:21:24] Dwayne: I know right? So the last 100 like since like the 1800s, whatever, whatever wild thing died. It's been this it's been sort of like.

[00:21:33] Koji: They're playing the long game.

[00:21:34] Dwayne: And they're gonna buy it for pennies on the dollar. You know.

[00:21:37] Cat: I mean. There really are some people like that around just in different neighborhoods who will let their house fall into disrepair. Like, not water the lawn, just make it look like a haunted wreck to bring down the other prices.

[00:21:49] Koji: Wait, who does that?

[00:21:49] Cat: They could buy another one. Oh, there was somebody in my neighborhood.

[00:21:51] Koji: Oh, really?

[00:21:52] Cat: Yeah.

[00:21:52] Dwayne: I mean, it goes the other way. Like people come in and buy cash. They pay for a house way more. And if you do that to 2 or 3 houses, all the houses, all the values go up.

[00:22:02] Cat: I was gonna say it's an ugly person, like it's never the same person. I think there's just like throughout history, been really like unattractive.

[00:22:10] Dwayne: Interesting.

[00:22:11] Cat: Strange looking people.

[00:22:12] Dwayne: And so they just go, they find like.

[00:22:14] Cat: An Incel.

[00:22:15] Dwayne: They seek refuge.

[00:22:16] Cat: Specifically. It's like an incel.

[00:22:18] Koji: Well, incels aren't really unattractive. Like, physically, a lot of times they're just mentally unattractive.

[00:22:22] Cat: That's true.

[00:22:23] Koji: Because a lot of times, like, what's like, like, Elliot Rogers.

[00:22:25] Dwayne: Incels a decent looking.

[00:22:26] Koji: Yeah. Like Elliot Rogers wasn't like a terrible looking human. I mean, he wasn't, like, handsome either, but he wasn't terrible, but, like, he just was a fucking miserable human being.

[00:22:33] Cat: I feel bad about what I said then.

[00:22:36] Jennifer: I thought it was cut. My theory.

[00:22:38] Cat: I don't know. So it can be. It can be. Just be like a a weird looking person. And then they're just, like, innocently going through the world. Or maybe they're angry and having a bad day.

[00:22:48] Koji: We could just ask Dwayne what it's like.

[00:22:50] Dwayne: Right, right. You know, it's interesting. It's interesting. Like, um, I was hanging out in Hollywood, and then someone said to me, what are you doing outside of Jersey? And I was like, what? And so. I don't know, I just I was. Like, what are you talking about? I'm not from Jersey. And he said. Sure you're not. So.

[00:23:14] Koji: Is it like a club or something that they.

[00:23:16] Cat: No. I just think that there's all these instances where there's like some unattractive person who's going about their life or like having a meltdown and people are like, oh, this is cryptid. And it's like, no, it's not cryptid.

[00:23:28] Dwayne: Like, see, I love this theory, but I like it more if it's like Princess Bride where, um, the The pirate or whatever was a different person, you know what I'm saying? When Wesley was, um.

[00:23:40] Jennifer: Oh, yeah.

[00:23:41] Dwayne: What was I forget the name of the identity he assumed, but it was like they passed it on to the next person. So the legend stays. So I think maybe, like with your theory, like there's a person who's aesthetically challenged, they find someone else and they say, you know, you don't have many options. Why don't you take over?

[00:23:59] Cat: You be the Jersey devil.

[00:24:00] Dwayne: Jersey devil responsibilities. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:03] Koji: Interesting.

[00:24:03] Cat: Okay. Okay.

[00:24:04] Koji: Okay. So my my theory is gonna is the one that's going to be the most obvious one that you never thought of. 

[00:24:09] Dwayne: I think I think yeah.

[00:24:10] Koji: Okay. So the Jersey devil is actually Frank Sinatra.

[00:24:14] Cat: What. 

[00:24:14] Dwayne: What the what?

[00:24:16] Cat: Yeah, definitely the most obvious.

[00:24:18] Koji: He's a vampire.

[00:24:18] Dwayne: That's old blue eyes.

[00:24:20] Koji: Yes.

[00:24:20] Dwayne: Okay.

[00:24:20] Koji: He's from Jersey. He's probably the most famous person from Jersey. He's one of the most famous. 

[00:24:24] Dwayne: He's From Hoboken. Um, Bruce Springsteen? Yeah. I think maybe Frank Sinatra. Yeah maybe. 

[00:24:29] Koji: He wanted to. You know, he's always been really famous, and he's always wanted to dodge his fans. So that's where he goes to hang out the Pine Barrens.

[00:24:37] Dwayne: Oh, to dodge his fans. I thought you said he was a Dodger fan.

[00:24:40] Cat: I know that's what I heard, too. I was like, what?

[00:24:42] Koji: He's. Yeah, he's there to dodge his fans. And so he talks. He sings about flying to the moon as a song. Right. And so people mistook that flying for the moon for actually flying.

[00:24:55] Dwayne: Um.

[00:24:55] Koji: Because they heard the word flying. But back then there was not TV so they couldn't like just hearing it being said out loud was good enough. It was like, you know, I don't know, this doesn't sound as good as I'm saying it out loud, but but it's the truth. I mean, sometimes the truth is not exciting. I'm sorry to say that to you.

[00:25:12] Dwayne: But Frank Sinatra has. I think he, you know, sometimes there's a lot of crooners, so he may not be the one that sings all these songs, but I feel like he sings about leaving his heart in San Francisco. Chicago is my kind of town. And, uh, New York, New York. And you're saying he is the Jersey devil? He's from Jersey, but he never did a song about Jersey as far as.

[00:25:32] Koji: That would have been. That would have been too obvious. The Jersey devil song about the jersey.

[00:25:36] Dwayne: I see, I see.

[00:25:37] Koji: So, I mean, he wanted to throw people off because. 

[00:25:39] Dwayne: Frank Sinatra

[00:25:40] Koji: He hated being a Jersey devil. I mean, it's like a curse to him. So he was cursed with, like, this beautiful voice and beautiful eyes. But he was the Jersey devil.

[00:25:47] Dwayne: So did he take a different form when he was on?

[00:25:49] Koji: He was so beautiful. They called him ugly. Somebody called him ugly just to make him feel like. Not as good about who he was. So. And then he just kind of. And then people say, you know, that's what they said. This is true.

[00:26:01] Dwayne: So is he. How about the wings and all of that stuff?

[00:26:04] Koji: No, he was singing about flying. So they assumed that he.

[00:26:06] Dwayne: But I mean, did people see him in the woods or they saw.

[00:26:10] Koji: They saw what they thought was Frank Sinatra was probably.

[00:26:13] Dwayne: Maybe it was Dean Martin.

[00:26:14] Koji: Or sandhill crane.

[00:26:14] Dwayne: Sammy Davis Jr.

[00:26:15] Koji: Sandhill crane.

[00:26:16] Dwayne: Okay, okay.

[00:26:17] Koji: Sandhill cranes. White, right. And he was white.

[00:26:21] Dwayne: Other members of the rat Pack. Okay, okay, I gotcha.

[00:26:23] Koji: Not not Sammy Davis Jr. Because he's black,

[00:26:25] Dwayne: Right? Right, right.

[00:26:25] Koji: So he definitely didn't they didn't think he was it, but he was a sandhill crane. I could have said he was a Japanese cat. So.

[00:26:33] Dwayne: Yeah. You didn't do Japanese. You didn't do an alien.

[00:26:35] Koji: Yeah. And I'm not Asian, so.

[00:26:37] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:26:37] Koji: This is this is a whole new.

[00:26:38] Cat: This is progress.

[00:26:39] Koji: This is progress.

[00:26:40] Dwayne: Yeah,

[00:26:41] Koji: Right.

[00:26:41] Koji: Wait. So what what what about the spottings before Frank Sinatra was.

[00:26:45] Koji: No, he's lived forever. He's a vampire.

[00:26:47] Cat: So they've always been Frank Sinatra.

[00:26:48] Koji: It's always been frank from the very beginning.

[00:26:50] Jennifer: Okay.

[00:26:50] Koji: In fact.

[00:26:51] Jennifer: He's still there.

[00:26:51] Koji: Maybe Mother Leeds is his mother, Deborah Leeds. And his father is what's his name? His father was, uh, Frank Franklin. Um.

[00:27:01] Cat: David.

[00:27:02] Koji: Daniel.

[00:27:03] Cat: Daniel,

[00:27:03] Dwayne: Right.

[00:27:04] Koji: So his real name was not Frank Sinatra as.

[00:27:07] Dwayne: Because if you had a name like Leeds, which sounds like a Mayflower name, you would change it to Sinatra. Especially in the 1800s, you would go, I want to. I want an Italian name. Because Italians are so welcomed at this point in time.

[00:27:22] Cat: Good job, good job.

[00:27:23] Koji: Exactly.

[00:27:24] Cat: Poking holes in it. Here's here's why I think it's mine. It's always a different person. No, I want to go back to mine for a second. Here's why I think it's always a different person. It's because there's so many origin stories. So one of them is mother leads son. One of them is from a gypsy curse.

[00:27:40] Koji: One from Frank Sinatra.

[00:27:42] Cat: Sure.

[00:27:42] Koji: Okay, so we have one.

[00:27:43] Cat: Can be Frank Sinatra's. One was from the other guy. What was the other guy? One.

[00:27:48] Koji: One was. Gypsy.

[00:27:49] Cat: There's somebody. Okay. There's gypsy. Mother leads. There's a Franklin.

[00:27:53] Cat: Yeah,

[00:27:53] Koji: Yeah. There's a bunch. Okay.

[00:27:54] Cat: There's the Napoleon one.

[00:27:55] Koji: Jennifer, what is your theory here? Do you have a theory.

[00:27:57] Jennifer: Okay, so you three, by the way, always have such the greatest theories. Um, so mine is actually kind of harkens back a little bit to our Mothman episode that we did once upon a time. So basically I was thinking when the Jersey devil was first spotted, that was kind of around the time the, um, South Jersey was known as being a haven for ex-slaves.

[00:28:23] Koji: Really?

[00:28:24] Cat: Mm.

[00:28:24] Jennifer: Yeah, from my research. So this was kind of like. If slavery was abolished in 1865. Right. So and it started being seen in the late 1700s or in the 18th century, right, 1700s. So if you've seen there was some articles talking about it being a bat. So there is a bat called the hammerhead bat that's native to Africa. And then it kind of looks like some of those drawings. So it hitched a ride. It was like a rogue, you know, he just hung on onto the ship across the Atlantic and kind of made it over to the Jersey area, this hammerhead bat or 2 or 3. And so, um, because that area didn't never had a lot of slavery, supposedly the South Jersey, the bat was like a pet. Um, and it got passed down or he, the bat had kids, something like that. And so that's why around that time, that was when he first was spotted. Right? Because that was where slaves could be free. And so then the bat was around there, right? Because he was hanging out with.

[00:29:32] Cat: He was the pet of a slave who became free. Exactly. Just flying around.

[00:29:36] Jennifer: Thank you. Cat, thank you.

[00:29:38] Koji: How big are these bats?

[00:29:39] Jennifer: They're. I think, um, they.

[00:29:40] Cat: Can get pretty big here's a picture.

[00:29:42] Koji: Oh, wow.

[00:29:43] Dwayne: Oh, wow. Yeah. So, yeah. So basically, did people just see it or did it, was it, did it have a function like was it used to protect those free slaves or was it used to run them off the land or or was it just there.

[00:29:56] Jennifer: Oh I didn't think about that. But, um, maybe they're a protector because isn't that part of the law is that it's a protector of the environment. Yeah. So maybe that's what it was. And that's kind of.

[00:30:07] Koji: It was a woke bat. Uh oh. MAGA was gonna kill them all.

[00:30:10] Jennifer: So the bat. Yeah. So that's why it was kind of spotted around that time. And the reason why this Jersey devil was spotted in later years, like in the 20th century, was because, um, remember, in the Mothman, it was a sandhill crane was one of the theories. So it was actually the reason it was spotted later is that it kind of died out, was what I was thinking. The hammerhead bat could not survive. So it was actually later became the sandhill crane that people were seeing because he was hanging out. They were hanging out over there in West Virginia where the Mothman Bridge thing happened. And then they kind of made their way also, you know, hitched a ride on a car and made it to.

[00:30:47] Koji: The next time I murder somebody, I'm going to blame sandhill crane.

[00:30:49] Dwayne: But see, this can work with my theory because.

[00:30:51] Jennifer: Yeah, how was 

[00:30:52] Dwayne: And now it's some corporate tycoon trying to get the land.

[00:30:56] Cat: Okay. It could be all of them.

[00:30:58] Jennifer: It's multiple and.

[00:30:59] Cat: Few points in time. There were some really unattractive people who got mistaken for as well.

[00:31:04] Koji: One of which was Frank Sinatra.

[00:31:06] Jennifer: Yes.

[00:31:07] Dwayne: Okay.

[00:31:07] Cat: Okay.

[00:31:08] Jennifer: Together they all work together.

[00:31:10] Cat: By the way, for some evidence for yours, African, uh, hammerhead bats live 25 to 35 years.

[00:31:17] Koji: What do they eat?

[00:31:19] Cat: What do they eat? I don't know.

[00:31:20] Jennifer: It's fruit.

[00:31:21] Dwayne: Slavemasters.

[00:31:22] Koji: Did you say people?

[00:31:24] Jennifer: Well, maybe they ran out of all the of.

[00:31:26] Cat: Yeah.

[00:31:27] Jennifer: They started to eat people. 

[00:31:28] Cat: Fruit, specifically figs. And they also like mangoes, bananas and guavas.

[00:31:33] Koji: There are a lot of in Jersey.

[00:31:35] Jennifer: That's why they started eating cows and, um, people.

[00:31:37] Koji: And people. Yeah.

[00:31:38] Cat: They have really weird looking faces, though. Like, for real?

[00:31:41] Koji: Maybe they're ugly.

[00:31:41] Jennifer: They look like the cartoon. I mean, the drawing in the paper.

[00:31:44] Cat: Yeah. Like, if I saw this. If I had no idea, like I'd never seen this. I would think it was an evil spirit. Sure.

[00:31:51] Dwayne: Like this. From this picture, I don't know what the face is. I think I see the nose kinda.

[00:31:56] Cat: Yeah. Its mouth is like. It's just a really. You guys look this up. It's like an orchid. But if an orchid was the lower half of the face.

[00:32:04] Dwayne: That picture looks like it was taken from a door, a peephole of a door. And it was like right up in the front and you're like, dude, I can't see who you are. Take a step back.

[00:32:15] Koji: Jennifer's theory is sounding more and more like.

[00:32:17] Cat: I mean, I think that's the one.

[00:32:19] Dwayne: The interesting thing about your theory is I didn't know this history, and I'm. I'm so intrigued. I'm gonna have to read it up about the Quakers. And they were abolitionists, and they sold houses to to black guys. Yeah. Black people. It's really interesting.

[00:32:30] Koji: This is a great time to talk about. The Quakers are very great people. They're the first people, the first white people to be anti-slavery. They were the first people for women's rights and the the the amendment for women's rights. They were also the only national organization that spoke out against the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War two.

[00:32:49] Dwayne: Oh, wow.

[00:32:49] Koji: So for and then during the war, they not only were supporting the Japanese Americans and not supporting the incarceration of them, they actually went and brought them to Quaker schools and took them out of camps and brought them Quaker schools and put them in homes. They were actually doing like they've done the work since the beginning. They were like, they're anti-gun violence.

[00:33:08] Dwayne: On the right side of history.

[00:33:09] Cat: I want to be Quaker.

[00:33:10] Koji: I mean, of all the Quaker, of all the organizations, I mean the Quakers.

[00:33:12] Cat: Is Their Quaker church,

[00:33:13] Dwayne: I knew there was a reason I loved oatmeal.

[00:33:15] Koji: They don't have a church. No, no, they don't have a church structure. Like they're very like, uh, egalitarian, like they don't have, like, a priest and stuff. They have a very it's like a very like, uh, everybody sits around and and does it together.

[00:33:27] Jennifer: And that area was. Yeah. Quaker.

[00:33:29] Koji: Quaker.

[00:33:29] Jennifer: Quaker. Hood.

[00:33:30] Koji: Yeah.

[00:33:30] Jennifer: Neighborhood. And so they just let the little bats roam free.

[00:33:33] Koji: That's why the Japanese Americans and the Quakers are we always we always like to talk about them because they were they were the only organization that was from the very beginning down. And whenever they're on, whenever they take a stand, they're always on the right side of history. They've always been on the right side of history from the very beginning, even when it was like, I mean, they were abolitionists in like the 18th century, like they were like, not like 1860 when people were already kind of moving toward that way. Yeah. They were they were there when it was unpopular. Women's rights unpopular. Oh. Gay rights. They're for gay marriage. They've been there for the whole time anyway. I like that theory.

[00:34:03] Dwayne: I do too. Like, I. 

[00:34:04] Cat: Yeah.

[00:34:04] Dwayne: I really like all the. Well, most of the theory Koji

[00:34:09] Jennifer: I actually I was gonna actually tie in something else. I was trying to find, um, that when we're glasses invented and perfected and I was going to tie in that the reason they thought this bat was so much bigger, as big as the sandhill crane was, because glasses hadn't quite developed by then, but I couldn't quite tell.

[00:34:26] Koji: Well, Benjamin Franklin, didn't he do bifocal?

[00:34:28] Jennifer: He did.

[00:34:29] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:34:29] Jennifer: He did.

[00:34:30] Koji: So then maybe that's. 

[00:34:31] Jennifer: So then. Yeah, but that means then they could see better.

[00:34:35] Koji: Maybe he was in love with a freed slave or a runaway slave, and he just didn't want to admit it.

[00:34:41] Cat: I it's hard to tie the glasses.

[00:34:44] Jennifer: I know I tried, though. I was. Kinda like. I'm just saying. That makes sense.

[00:34:47] Cat: No, but this bat is is excellent. Well, it's time for us to pick the unofficial official story. One that will answer this question once and for all. So which theory do we want to go with today? I think I know already.

[00:35:00] Koji: I mean, I think Frank Sinatra. I'm just kidding. I think Jennifer.

[00:35:03] Dwayne: I think Jennifer's.

[00:35:04] Cat: Yeah. I vote for Jennifer. 

[00:35:05] Dwayne: Because and also it ties into like a true historical thing, which is kind of.

[00:35:09] Koji: What you're saying. Frank Sinatra is not a vampire.

[00:35:12] Cat: Wait, are you saying that ugly people don't exist?

[00:35:15] Dwayne: Wait, am I saying that there aren't tycoons who are always looking to take over some stuff?

[00:35:21] Koji: And that's the official story. We'll take another break, and we'll figure out if some of these other cryptids are real as well. Since we discussed the possible existence of the new Jersey devil, let's switch it up a bit. Which of these California cryptids are real? By the way, before we get to this, I just want to mention that I don't know why I didn't mention it earlier. Cryptids are the only kind of supernatural weird thing that I don't really. I can't get behind for whatever reason.

[00:35:45] Cat: Really.

[00:35:46] Koji: Bigfoot, Loch ness monster.

[00:35:48] Cat: I totally believe in them.

[00:35:49] Koji: Really?

[00:35:49] Cat: Yes. Okay, so especially for big. I mean, I could really get into Bigfoot, but, um, humans were not like, Homo sapiens is just like one kind of homo.

[00:35:59] Koji: You said Homo?

[00:36:02] Cat: There were all these other sort of humanoid ones that were around at the same time as Homo sapiens. Yeah. And. But then Homo sapiens basically killed them all through wars and stuff. Well, what if they aren't all gone? And so that's where I believe in, like, Bigfoot could be one of those others.

[00:36:20] Dwayne: But also, how do you, Koji you always say, like aliens are a reflection of, like, the psyche of where we're at? I think cryptids kind of fit.

[00:36:27] Koji: Yeah, they fit that.

[00:36:29] Dwayne: But also, like you're saying, there were different types of, um, man or different type of human like things that didn't win out. But if you like in Australia, like Australia is a weird place because it feels like the animals are from like thousands of years ago. So yeah, these things kind of, you know, work the plant, like the animals look weird. Everything is weird down there.

[00:36:49] Koji: The best explanation I've ever heard for cryptids is the idea of tulpas. I think I've probably talked about this a million times on this podcast, but Tulpas is this idea from the East where basically, if you give enough thought and if people give it enough thought and belief and talk about it enough that it becomes real. So that's why, like for example, the most classic example is Slenderman. Like Slenderman was started in whatever year started, it was like a picture in a viral video.

[00:37:12] Cat: Creepypasta.

[00:37:13] Koji: No, not in a creepy. It was a it was a picture competition, a creepy picture competition. And so like that was basically the first. And then people started talking about it, writing stories, creepypastas they started making movies and shows and just doing so much about it. It eventually became real in a lot of ways. People I mean, people think about Bigfoot like that, right? Where they they spend so much energy and thought and they hunt. They even hunt for it. They look around for it. And the idea is that, you know, these people put so much energy into the world, they basically just manifest. That's why you could like, walk around and find a Bigfoot, but then you can't find evidence for Bigfoot. I mean, that's the only thing that's.

[00:37:46] Cat: I mean, that's that's arguable. There are some organizations that get actual reports about Sasquatch sightings in place in different parts of the US, like.

[00:37:54] Koji: Around the world or around the world.

[00:37:55] Cat: Yeah. And so they have, like, whole databases of it, and they'll go and send out expeditions to see what they find. And there's like certain, I just listened to a whole podcast episode of it. Um, but yeah, they know what they sound like. They know all of it.

[00:38:08] Dwayne: I think. I think if you are looking for Bigfoot or anything, then you should first go to the Apple Store and, um, just buy a bunch of AirTags, you know, next time you see them, throw an AirTag at them. And hopefully.

[00:38:22] Cat: Hope that it sticks.

[00:38:23] Dwayne: Hope it sticks.

[00:38:23] Cat: I thought you were gonna say, okay, you get an AirTag. You get really big shoes. You put an AirTag in the shoes, put them in the forest. A Bigfoot will eventually need shoes.

[00:38:33] Dwayne: Well, put them in like uh. Like some kind of a like a rabbit. Like a dead rabbit or something that, you know, he's gonna eat, and then the AirTag is in the stomach.

[00:38:42] Koji: Okay. All right. So let's look at some California cryptids. All right. For the Wetzels Riverside Monster. It's a lanky, leaf scaled creature with glowing green eyes and clawed limbs first spotted near the Santa Ana River in 1958. Real or fake? Jennifer. Real or fake?

[00:38:57] Jennifer: I thought that was fake. I just felt like there wasn't enough sightings.

[00:39:00] Koji: Yeah. What kind of monster wants to be in Riverside? I spent every day in Riverside.

[00:39:03] Cat: I think it's fake because it sounds like whoever made this up was at the mall and was like. Mm. Okay. Wetzel's like that one sketch.

[00:39:12] Dwayne: 1958. It's too late. It's too late to to.

[00:39:16] Koji: Create a cryptid.

[00:39:17] Dwayne: To be cryptid. Yeah.

[00:39:18] Cat: Is there even a river called the Santa Ana River?

[00:39:20] Dwayne: Yeah.

[00:39:21] Koji: Yeah, I think there is.

[00:39:21] Cat: Oh, okay.

[00:39:22] Dwayne: It's in California. All the rivers look like reservoirs. So in southern Cali, yeah.

[00:39:28] Koji: Subterranean reptilians of LA. Allegedly an ancient, technologically advanced race of lizard like beings who built a vast underground city beneath Los Angeles to escape a meteor catastrophe. Real or fake? Dwaybe.

[00:39:39] Dwayne: Uh, I'm gonna go real on this one.

[00:39:41] Koji: Yeah. Why?

[00:39:42] Dwayne: Oh, well, you know how you know, people always, um, say Hollywood people are like reptiles or something. So maybe these are these people, and they they come up and they they take all the roles.

[00:39:52] Koji: Interesting. Cat.

[00:39:52] Cat: Fake.

[00:39:53] Koji: Fake. Why?

[00:39:54] Cat: Just just sounds. It sounds too crazy technologically. Under the city, we have so many earthquakes. If we had a city under the city, the whole thing would have collapsed.

[00:40:03] Koji: Jennifer,

[00:40:03] Jennifer: I think that they were on to something, so I can't. I can't say real or fake, because I do think that, uh, there are reptilians.

[00:40:12] Koji: Oh, you're a reptilian person.

[00:40:13] Jennifer: I think I have I've have started to believe in it because I've started to hear stories from 1 or 2 friends.

[00:40:20] Koji: That are reptilians or reptilian.

[00:40:22] Jennifer: They know reptilians and met reptilians, and they it's like that thing of like, who would believe you if you said you saw Bigfoot? And I believe this friend of mine.

[00:40:30] Cat: I mean, look, I've, I've seen footage of Erica Kirk, and there's such a thing as reptilian.

[00:40:36] Jennifer: There you go. There you go. So then. Yeah. So I feel like that particular story about the underground may not be right, but the reptilian part he must have heard one or spotted one at some point coming from under the ground.

[00:40:50] Koji: Interesting. All right, so Fresno Nightcrawler, a mysterious, leggy cryptid resembling a walking pair of pants captured on surveillance footage in California and known for its eerie silent strolls. Cat real or fake?

[00:41:02] Cat: That one's real.

[00:41:03] Koji: That one's real. Why?

[00:41:05] Cat: Cause it doesn't have any weird details to it.

[00:41:07] Koji: The leggy cryptid. Isn't that weird?

[00:41:09] Cat: No, cuz this other one is like, oh, they're like technologically advanced race. An underground city beneath Los Angeles. Everyone's like, we're named after a pretzel chain. And this is just like, okay, it sounds like a real name. It's a place and a description of what it is, and that's how things are named. And then leggy cryptid resembling a walking pair of pants. That sounds like something somebody would have seen on footage like it's it's just vague enough that I think that's realistic.

[00:41:37] Dwayne: Well, I'll have to check the, uh, surveillance footage, but I would say fake because it's Fresno. And I just think, um, it's just some weird dude in Fresno. It's not like it's just a.

[00:41:47] Cat: Guy on meth.

[00:41:48] Koji: Well, as a person from Northern California, you're an expert.

[00:41:50] Dwayne: It's a person with a short, like a short torso who just walks around. But you can't call Fresno, Northern California.

[00:41:57] Koji: It's not Northern California.

[00:41:58] Jennifer: It's I think it's central, but I feel like it's almost NorCal. It's pretty close.

[00:42:02] Cat: It's like a four hour drive.

[00:42:04] Dwayne: Yeah, but it's also a four hour drive to San Fran.

[00:42:06] Koji: Is it.

[00:42:07] Jennifer: Or six?

[00:42:08] Jennifer: Yeah, six.

[00:42:09] Cat: And also there's like another 6 to 10 hours in California if you continue driving north.

[00:42:14] Jennifer: Yeah. So I really liked this Fresno Nightcrawler one because I hadn't heard of it. I think it's real. I just don't know if it's a cryptid. You know, it could be like a ghost or something, but I thought it was. Yeah. Did you guys see the photo? Because it looks pretty like I'm like that. I can't quite tell if that's fake or not. And supposedly the surveillance video is, uh, lost.

[00:42:36] Koji: I was gonna say it's somebody hiding from ice, but this is way before ice so.

[00:42:40] Cat: Oh, wow. I'm looking at the pictures.

[00:42:42] Jennifer: It looks weird. I'm like, I think it might might. 

[00:42:44] Dwayne: It Looks horrible. I'm I wish I didn't say this, I don't need to be seeing stuff like this.

[00:42:51] Jennifer: It's scary.

[00:42:52] Koji: I'll hold you tonight. Dwayne. Don't worry.

[00:42:53] Dwayne: Thank you.

[00:42:55] Cat: That's terrifying.

[00:42:56] Jennifer: Scary.

[00:42:56] Cat: Okay,

[00:42:57] Koji: I'll cuddle with you. I'll cuddle with all of you.

[00:43:01] Cat: What's the wetzel's? Pretzels. Ghost.

[00:43:03] Jennifer: It's disturbing.

[00:43:06] Dwayne: Yeah. I'm gonna have to stay up later and watch some other stuff anyway. It's fine.

[00:43:12] Cat: Let's see. I'm looking at the Wetzel's Riverside monster. It just kind of looks like an alien. Like a gray alien, but tall. 

[00:43:18] Koji: Asian.

[00:43:19] Cat: Um. Could be. Could be. And then what's the subterranean look like?

[00:43:23] Koji: They just look like Reptilians.

[00:43:24] Cat: Okay. Oh, yeah. Those are reptilians. Um, yeah. No.

[00:43:29] Dwayne: Those pictures didn't look photoshopped, so I don't know.

[00:43:31] Cat: I mean, you can't trust photos, so honestly, the photos are meaningless.

[00:43:38] Dwayne: Thank you, Jennifer, for coming on with us. Please tell us where people can follow you and stuff.

[00:43:43] Jennifer: Oh, thank you. I guess for anyone listening, I have Instagram. My tag is Miss Jennifer Field m I s s j e n n e r field like a baseball field. But I was actually thinking the other day, how long can I hold on to the miss part? Like what if I'm in my 50s and 60s?

[00:44:02] Koji: You could be a miss.

[00:44:03] Jennifer: I could huh, but then people are like, oh, you're just a little spinster. Like, you know, I was just thinking about that the other day anyway. Yeah. So I have Instagram. I do have an episode of I can't say, but yeah, an NBC procedural crime drama that will air, I think, sometime in January. I have a couple scenes in. I'll put it on my Instagram when it comes out.

[00:44:23] Dwayne: Congrats.

[00:44:24] Jennifer: And then, yeah, my steamy thriller is, um, on the film festival circuit. It's called faithless.

[00:44:30] Koji: Is it a feature or short?

[00:44:32] Jennifer: It is a short. Yeah. And, uh, where else? Yeah. See me at a Dodger's Dodger Stadium whenever the Giants are in town. I'd always try to go see you guys there.

[00:44:42] Dwayne: Don't sit in the bleachers though.

[00:44:44] Cat: Well, we truly appreciate your support and enthusiasm for our quirky, mysterious, and fun filled journey. Your curiosity and engagement make this podcast a joy to create. Stay tuned for more intriguing stories and remember to share, subscribe and leave a review. Until next time, keep wondering and stay unofficially official.

[00:45:04] Koji: This is really exciting about the next episode, so listen closely here guys. In the next episode we'll be discussing a certain green question. Is broccoli actually poisonous? I love broccoli.

[00:45:14] Dwayne: Dun dun. Dun dun.

[00:45:15] Cat: Same. 

[00:45:15] Koji: Broccoli.

[00:45:16] Dwayne: I've had it a lot. So. And you like it? And we're both still here.

[00:45:21] Koji: Maybe we're. Maybe we're not.

[00:45:22] Cat: It gives me gas.

[00:45:24] Jennifer: Oh, it is supposed to be.

[00:45:25] Dwayne: Yeah, that's what they say.

[00:45:26] Jennifer: It to your body. Yeah.

[00:45:28] Koji: All right. Well, thank you guys for listening. Thank you everybody.

[00:45:31] Cat: Bye. 

[00:45:31] Dwayne: Bye.

[00:45:32] Jennifer: Bye.